Crayton Webb: Hey, everyone. Welcome to Reputation Matters. I’m Crayton Webb. Well, if you’re a sports fan at all, you remember the story of the Washington Senators moving and becoming the Texas Rangers. Or you might remember, if you’re a basketball fan, when the Seattle Supersonics became the team in Oklahoma City. Or if, of course, you like football, we all remember when the Baltimore Colts moved to Indianapolis. We’re shooting here today from Dallas, Texas, so we especially remember when the Minnesota North Stars became the Dallas Stars hockey team. But a lot of us, when it comes to golf, don’t necessarily know where our favorite golfers hail from. Whether it’s Scotty Shuffler or Tiger Woods, although actually, I know Scotty Shuffler is from Dallas because we’re shooting from Dallas. And what about the organizations behind all these teams? Well, today on Reputation Matters, our guest is the “father” who brought the PGA to Frisco, Texas. David Ovard, thank you for joining us today.

David Ovard: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Crayton: You’ve got a great story. You’re an attorney by trade, work for Clark Hill in Frisco, Texas. And in a moment, we’re going to get to the story of the dad who brought the PGA to North Texas. But you grew up in a family that knew politics.

David: Right.

Crayton: Your dad was a judge. Tell us your story and how was image an important part of your upbringing? How did you think about it?

David: Boy, that’s an interesting question. Back then, so my father ran for judge back in 1978. And back then, technology was not what it is today so you did yard signs. He drove big fire engines with signs on them, and you did phone banking and went and you did phone calls and you walked neighborhoods. There was no social media, there was none of that stuff. And so your reputation grew from where you lived and what you did and how you did it, and then it expanded from there. But there was a lot of DIY projects in politics, as you know, and really, it was the amount of effort. So the first time he ran, we campaigned for a full year. And I mean, every weekend for a year.

Crayton: And when you say campaign, what was involved with that?

David: It was building thousands, tens of thousands of yard signs. Back then you could put them up in intersections. Back then, it was wild west. You could do whatever you could do. Yards. There was a big florist, McShan Florist, it’s well known in Dallas, their business was to call people and take phone calls and phone orders. You didn’t have the internet, so they took orders over the phone and that’s how they dealt with customers. And they would allow us to go up and use their phone facilities for phone banking. And then we walked neighborhoods. And I mean, for months and months, we would walk neighborhoods and go knock on the door and give out cards and answer questions and do all that stuff. I believe it to be easier today with social media and email and text messaging and all that kind of stuff. But how you did all of that, and then, more importantly of course, is how you do your job. So let’s say you’re running for office and you get in there. If you don’t do a good job, then it doesn’t really mean much next time around, so you’ve got to do a good job. But getting your name out there, getting your reputation out there, letting people know how you feel about things, what your honest views are and how you’re going to do the job and then doing it in that world is how you build your reputation.

Crayton: Yeah, much smaller stratosphere, right, in that you were word of mouth and dependent upon your community. And then also, I would imagine traditional news media.

David: Absolutely.

Crayton: Still has a tremendous amount of power, but it was the only outlet then. Yes?

David: So at the time, Dallas Morning News, the Times Herald, and there were basically three TV channels and what those folks had to say about you was incredibly important. Usually whoever received the endorsement of the newspaper, usually won. If people didn’t know you, if people just didn’t have a clue, they would go and grab the newspaper and whoever the newspaper endorsed, that’s what they’d do.

Crayton: So as the son of a judge, but a politician, because he had to run, were you aware of your dad’s image, of his reputation? Did that impact you at all or was it not that direct?

David: At first, no, because I was seven years, I was eight years old. And so you go to all these functions and you’re looking at the lights and the photographers and all that kind of stuff, and it’s foreign to you. But in Texas, the judge has to run every four years. Then later, he ran for the Court of Appeals, and he was an important cog in the Dallas, North Texas area, had some other positions that were appointed by the governor. He became the administrative judge of the region, which is Dallas County and the 11 surrounding counties, and he was sort of the judge of the judges. And then my granddad ran for state rep, so we did it all over again. And so all of that combined, you realized that it was difficult to get in the door, but was more important, once you’re in the door, how you did the job, the quality of your work, the quality of the person that you are, how you communicated with people in explaining your reasoning. If you agreed with somebody, fine. If you didn’t, at least explain where the difference is and try to work with people. I’ll give you an example. So there were some politicians that my dad and those other folks did not agree on on some things, but dad went to them and said, “We’re never going to agree on these particular issues, but there are so many other things that we can do that are really good things for our community. Let’s do those. Let’s get those done.” And so when dad passed, a lot of those folks actually named a courtroom after him because he was willing to go do those things, at least where we can make some good positive front [inaudible 00: 06: 01] forward. Yeah.

Crayton: So how did this activity in your childhood and growing up inform your worldview and your decisions as a father, as an attorney, as it relates to, I mean, it’s a simplicity to say reputation is important. I needed to have a good reputation in order to get clients. Of course, I got to win in court. That impacts my reputation. But it’s more sophisticated than that, isn’t it?

David: It is. So dad, everybody knows about dad because of his politics and his judgeship. My mom was a banker and she wrote loan and credit policies for a bank back when women didn’t have a lot of those types of jobs, and it was considered to be a man’s world. And she really, really believed that where there is a will, there is a way. My sister and I were not allowed to use the word can’t in our household. It was forbidden. I never said I can’t until I was 16 years old and I got in trouble for that. So I really believed growing up that if you want to achieve something, there is a way and if there’s a way, if you work hard enough, you can do it. Whether that’s right or wrong, that’s just how I was raised, and I’ve sort of always believed that. I think it’s kind of fun to live that way, actually.

Crayton: So fast forward, you grow up in Dallas. 2004, you and your young family at the time move up to Frisco, Texas. 2017, Frisco is named the fastest growing city in the United States. I believe in 2020, it was called the fastest growing city in Texas. And you have now been dubbed, in all this media coverage over the last three years, as the father, as the dad who brought the Professional Golfers Association to Frisco, Texas. How did you do that?

David: Well, there’s a lot to it. So first, well, you know. Everybody should know that my wife, Wren, is a social dynamo. And I tell people, I know a lot of folks, she knows everybody, and that’s not a joke, and she really does, and she works very hard at it. But what happened was, so both of my sons played junior golf at an elite level growing up. I didn’t care what they did, if it was sports, music, art, whatever, if they showed a modicum of skill and a high level of interest, I said, “Whatever you want to do, I’ll get you the best instruction that I can. And you take it from there.” Well, they chose golf because my sister gave my oldest son some metal clubs when he was little and told him to hit real golf balls in and around the house with real golf clubs. So he loved that, of course.

Crayton: Merry Christmas.

David: It was awful. But what happened was my boys were coached by Cameron McCormick, who’s Jordan Spieth’s coach, and he was looking at how he wanted to expand his coaching going into the future, and he was thinking about how to expand that. At the same time, Mark Harrison with the Northern Texas PGA was looking at moving their office space, but also creating a junior golf park concept. Another fellow, Greg Williams, who I grew up with across the street, went to school with was thinking, okay, so we don’t have a city facility in Frisco for golf, and the school kids need a place to practice because they had to go to different locations. Frisco has something for everybody, for football, basketball, baseball, one act play, band, I mean everything. But nobody had thought about golf. And so all these folks were talking with me about it. Wren and I are very close with the folks who are involved with the city, the city manager and the Economic Development Corporation folks, and the Community Development Corporation folks. And so we started to work on the concept, but Cameron said, “Hey, have you talked with the PGA of America, because they’re the business of golf?” And I said, “No, but I’ll give it a shot.” So I did. And to make a long story short, over a year, it took more than five and a half years, significantly. It was the hardest project. The city manager at the time, George Purefoy, who has now retired, will tell you it’s the hardest project they’ve ever done. So for years, I put together the proposal to the PGA of America for them to move from West Palm where they were in Florida, which is not an awful place to be.

Crayton: No.

David: Then once word got out, other places were showing their interest. Arizona, North Carolina. The governor of Florida wanted to keep them. And so things got very serious and we had to put together private capital. We had to put together economic incentives from the Economic Development Corporation, the Community Development Corporation, the governor’s office. I mean, there was an incredibly complex project, but everybody believed that it was good for everybody. And each one of those entities, at the time, was used to being the king of their own kingdom, but everybody had to give up a little bit more than usual to make the rising tide floats all boats. And so everybody worked on it, worked on it, worked on it, and then near the end when we really needed some more private capital, we really needed to give it the big punch. TRT Holdings, Omni, stepped in. And so now there is a beautiful glorious 500-room resort up at PGA Frisco.

Crayton: But was the PGA looking to move at all?

David: They were not when we first started this. Life isn’t horrible in Florida where they were. And there were business issues, though, in that, and I talked with them at length about you’re on the east coast, it’s very difficult for your members and people that want to do business with you from the west coast even get to you and do business with you. Whereas, if you’re in the fastest growing place in the country, you’re in the middle of the country, you can get anywhere in three and a half hours. You’re in the central time zone. We’ve got two airports that service everything around us, and we have a very fast growing, upwardly mobile base, highly educated, an incredibly intellectual workforce. All the demographics say, you should be here. And they’re very smart folks, they studied it all. They looked at it and they determined, actually, we think that’s right.
Crayton: How did you even get them to take your call?

David: Well, so divine intervention, maybe. So we knew some of the same people. The fellow that was the COO of the PGA of America just happened to be the former president of the Northern Texas PGA of America.

Crayton: Okay. There were some relationships.

David: There were some relationships there. So that was the first phone call, that was the first discussion. And then it followed with meeting after meeting, after meeting. The current CEO, Seth Waugh, eventually came in and he said, it’s interesting. And Seth is an incredibly humble guy. He’s a brilliant man, very kind. And he said, you hear about it, but you don’t really understand it until you come see it and feel it and experience it. And so all of the growth combined with, and this should not be underestimated, the pro business, the pro moving forward mindset of the people that live here and work here, and the reputation, one thing that I learned on a nationwide basis when you’re sort of fending off other people that are trying to get the PGA too, is the reputation of how people live their lives when they’re there matters a great deal. So when you come here to the Dallas Fort Worth area, you come to Frisco, people here are very nice. They’re hardworking, they’re helpful, they want to help. They greet you with a smile. What can I do for you? How can we do it to the best ability that we’ve got? You tell us and we’re going to do it. Really, a true go-getter attitude was incredibly important in all of this because the money matters a lot, of course, but there are other things that are important, and if all the dollars are close to equal, those types of things can swing the pendulum in your favor.

Crayton: How about on the home front? I can’t imagine that everyone here was like, “Oh, David, I’m so glad you called. I’ve been thinking the same thing, or That’s the best idea I’ve ever had. Where do I sign?” It probably wasn’t that easy.
David: It was not. It’s hard to describe the difficulty of the project. I will say, it died a thousand deaths. Really, truly, there were days where I went home and said, “This deal is dead. It’s not going to happen.” And then a couple days later, something would just happen that fixed the problem.

Crayton: You’re not kidding about it.

David: There were some things that no human being could fix, it just happened. And the complexity of it, that’s why it took so long. And some people, you had to be careful who you talk to because there were some people that would say, oh, it’s a horrible idea. And then they go try to take it. There were some people that would say, oh, it’s a great idea, but they would want to kill it for political reasons or whatever. You got to be careful and there’s a due order and there’s a due cadence. And I would say that putting all the pieces together is one thing, navigating the personalities and making it so that everybody ends up working together when that wasn’t necessarily the feeling at the outset, that’s a true challenge, and that takes a lot of work.

Crayton: Now, the land wasn’t just sitting there either. There is some open land in Texas. We pray not everybody comes and buys it all up. But that wasn’t a foregone conclusion either. What can you tell us about actually getting the land where the headquarters and the two or three golf courses that accompany it are there?

David: So the land is its own book. It’s its own movie, right? There’s different parts of this project that could be its own book or movie. The land was one of them. So there were two sites in Frisco that theoretically could have worked. One was the old Exide site that has been an issue for a long time. It was a battery plant and the lead and issues like that, turn trash into treasure, and that’s worked in other places. But there were issues with that site that just didn’t work. So then we went up north and there was a fellow named Bert Fields who started North Dallas Bank and Trust. He’s no longer with us, but he was in the beginning. And Bert had vision and he purchased land up in Frisco and other places years and years and years ago. And most of Frisco is flat ranch land. There was just nothing on it. This particular piece of land though, has topography on it. It’s got a creek rolling through it. Really, really, it’s a great piece of land. It was a working ranch, but it had hills and movement and trees and water. And when everybody got there and we got out of the truck, everybody went, “Yes, this can be a championship facility.” And the idea was, not only to have a wonderful golf course, but to have a truly major championship golf course. So there’s two golf courses. There’s a par three course, as well. There’s the championship course, which is called the East Course. It tips out at over 7,800 yards and is all-you-can-eat golf. So the senior PGA championship was just held there. The KPMG Women’s PGA championship will be held there in ’25. The men’s PGA championship will be held there in 2027. There will be events in between those as well, along with the junior PGA league being there and being on ESPN, sort of like the Little League World Series. And then you run that cadence again, do that again. And then at the end of that, the idea is all goes well, Ryder Cup in little old Frisco, Texas at the end of that process.

Crayton: Wow.

David: So the world is coming, the world is going to see it.

Crayton: And was the PGA already in before you identified the land, or was it the land part of the salesmanship to the PGA?

David: It was part of it, and the leadership had the vision to see it. It’s beautiful land, and so they understood it, but we needed to get the board out there. And so that was a whole nother, so they’ve got a large board, they all fly in, we have to get a big bus and we have to drive out there. And it had rained. And so you’re trying to get this bus onto a hill that overlooks. The bus driver said, “I can go no further. We’re going to tip over.” And we said, “Okay, everybody out.” And so we had a big group meeting out on the hill overlooking hundreds of acres. So Bert, this is pretty interesting, so Bert had 2,900 acres. That piece of property is 2,900 acres. Golf, between the courses, the par three course, there’s a district with retail and food, the Omni resort, all of that together, 650 acres-ish. The rest of it now is the Fields project, which is known as the Fields, which is going to be developed with housing, multi-use living, live-work-play, offices, all that great stuff. But it’s going to be developed in a world-class way to the highest standard, which is really exciting. But what probably would’ve taken 25 years to develop is now all being developed. It’s full bore ahead.

Crayton: So let me go back to where I started. How did you do it and what did you learn and what would you do different next time?

David: Man, okay, so those are loaded questions. So back to the where there’s a will, there’s a way. I really have always believed that. And I gave a presentation one time and someone came up to me afterwards and said, “Between the project and working as an attorney and seeing your family and going to kids things, I don’t think I could do that.” And I said, “I disagree with you. Anybody can do it. You have to make your mind up to do it. And really, what it means is you don’t sleep very much.” And so literally, I would work until two in the morning. Sometimes I didn’t move from the sofa, I didn’t have the energy to get up and go to the bedroom or anything like that. So Wren would set an alarm on my phone. She set three alarms and she’d come make sure that I got up at 4: 30 or five. And that was a long time. We worked really, really, really hard. But I believe that it was what was best for everybody involved. It was great for the community, the state, the county, the city, the DFW area. And I love this place. I love it around here. And I just felt to let that opportunity get away, I’d be letting everybody down, basically.
Crayton: So to interrupt my own question, is that the why? Do people ask you, why in the world would you take this on? What drove you?

David: So the why is probably the most important part of it. Everybody should have a why. That should kind of drive what you’re doing.

Crayton: Ideally.

David: Ideally. So back to my dad and my granddad and my parents. They had their whys and they were sort of legendary in what they did. And they did it for the right reasons and it was good for the community. And my dad was very, very highly regarded as a judge, but more so as a human being. And I wanted there to be some type of legacy that I did something well for everybody, not for me, but for everybody else. And I wanted my kids to know that if you really put your mind to it and you work hard enough, you can achieve it. And that’s why I did it.

Crayton: Do you think, I mean, you’re a humble guy, but don’t you think to some degree it was your credibility, your word and your relationships that even got this in steps one, two and three? Four, five, and six may have come become of one, two, and three?

David: I don’t like to talk about myself, you now that. I believe that plays a major part in it. And these are folks who have relationships and they will deal with you and they’ll deal with you over a period of time to find out what you’re like, whether they want to work with you, whether you’re trustworthy, whether you’re hardworking, whether you’re smart, whether you’re doing things for the right reasons. They will find all that out for themselves. But they also ask and they do their due diligence and Hey, do you know this guy? Do you know this person? What are they like? How do they do things? Can I believe them? Are they going to do what they say they’re going to do? Are they going to do what they say they’re going to do on time? I mean, all those things that people that are trying to get things done, they take their … I think there’s a misperception out there that successful people, they have it handed to them or they’re bad people or … Most of these folks are very hardworking, very kind, very intelligent, and they want to make sure that they have as much as humanly possible covered and they work very hard at it. And that means making sure that I was going to do what I said I was going to do. And there were times where I had to say, this is going to happen, and I had to mean it and it had to happen. And if it didn’t happen on time, the project dies. That was definitely part of it.

Crayton: Let’s talk about the reputation of golf. I think, largely in our country, right or wrong, fair or unfair, golf is largely considered a majority white sport, male sport, despite the success of the LPGA and an affluent sport. Is that fair? Is that accurate?

David: I think that it’s had that reputation is a fair statement. Is it accurate? I think, historically, it was. Not so much anymore. So I will tell you, for anybody who really takes this seriously, the amount of conversation over numerous years about how to grow the sport, what that means and how that benefits everybody, was absolutely essential to all of this. And the discussions over how do we get more minorities involved, how do we get more women involved, how do we get more girls involved? So in golf, the number one growing demographic is women and girls. College golf, the number one unused scholarship money so far, but that is going down, has been women’s golf. That demographic is absolutely just blowing up. Women have taken to the sport, they love it and they’re getting their girls involved. And it’s one of the coolest things. Part of the project up there, there’s an area called the Dance Floor, and it’s a massive putting green, I think two acres. [inaudible 00: 25: 28] It’s public and they can come, they play the par three course, they can putt on the big, putting green for free. They don’t have to pay anything, they can just go out there. And you see kids rolling around on the ground and doing-

Crayton: Probably my kids.

David: Probably most of our kids. But the number one growing demographic that you notice out there are women and girls. One of the big topics of conversation too was how to make the sport more accessible. And in doing the research, there’s actually a surprisingly large number of places that are affordable, and I’ll even say it, cheap, to play golf. Dallas has a bunch of really great municipal golf courses. It’s the time. Not many people have five hours to go play a round of golf. And so one of the big things was take basketball for the example. You come home, you go out in the driveway and you shoot some hoop with your kid and you play for 20 minutes, 30 minutes. And people say, what do you do after work? I played some basketball.

Crayton: You’re dad of the year.

David: I didn’t have to go to the gym. And we didn’t have to get a referee and have a full team and do all that kind of stuff. So how do we do that with golf? How do we get clubs into the hands of kids that can’t afford them? Those things already exist and people do a great job. It’s getting those folks to the place in a time efficient manner. And so there was a big push, hey, if you go and you play the par three course, or if you just putt, or if you play three holes, if you play six holes, that qualifies as playing golf. Let’s change the handicap system. Let’s change the mentality. So out there, there’s not a tee box per se, so much as there are ribbon tees. They put the tees in different places and you go play from your ability. And there’s been a massive effort to welcome everybody and go play and have fun. Don’t take it so seriously. The par three course has speakers and lights and they play music. And you can go out there and there’s a tequila truck out there. It is welcoming to everybody. The formality of it, of golf, has really scared people. In the past, Topgolf was a huge education to everybody. Go have some fun, hit a ball, who cares? So as much as possible, take that attitude and put it in a facility that has a major championship golf course and let’s see what happens.

Crayton: How are you advising the PGA and folks involved in golf in general about its reputation and role in our society today?

David: So on an ongoing basis, I think that is pretty much covered, but when you go through the pain that we all went through together, you’re friends with these folks, you’re close with these folks, and we all know each other and we’re all very close.

Crayton: But you also don’t want to see it slip away.

David: No, that’s right. That’s right. The PGA of America has a firm commitment to do those things that they talked about and they’re doing it. And that was built into the facility and it’s built now into their business model. So when you go up there and you see people from all walks of life commingling together and playing with each other, and that those core concepts that were discussed and put into the project are actually being enforced and used on a daily basis, you feel great about it.

Crayton: What about your reputation? How has this, I mean, again, you’re a person of great humility, successful attorney. How has this endeavor impacted your reputation locally, nationally?

David: There’s been a lot of exposure. I don’t normally talk about things that I’ve worked on. This one I’m proud of, though. It was very, very difficult and it took a lot of grit. And so there has been exposure for that. And people will call me and say, “How can we do this?” And sometimes it’s golf, sometimes it’s not. The complexities of it, the legal side, the economic incentive side, the private capital side, all the pieces have to go together. Sure, they can apply to a golf project, but they do apply to other projects as well. And so sort of like this conversation that we’re having, how’d you do it? In our particular project that’s different, what should we change? How should we approach it differently? Those are conversations where people call me and say, “Hey, we need your help.” And honestly, it does take some, I hate the term, but I’ll say it, thinking outside the box. It takes creative thinking. It takes desire to come up with a solution where there does not appear to be one. And you have to stick to it, and you have to really analyze it and think about it and try it. Oh, that doesn’t work so now we’re going to pivot and now we’re going to pivot again. But if you keep after it, the vast majority of the time, you can get there. And so people will call me oftentimes at the outset to get my thoughts and I’ll say, great project, or I don’t know that I’d do that one. Or they’re stuck and they need somebody that can fix and get them unstuck.

Crayton: Business of sports. At one point in your career, you were a professional athlete. I’ll let you explain. Not golf. Without oversharing and wanting to protect your family’s privacy, you have two sons, both are golfers, one who graduated from Southern Methodist University and is now a professional golfer, and the other on a scholarship at Baylor, playing golf, also signed as a junior. Impressive all the way around. The business of sports has changed, particularly at the college level. What advice are you giving your sons as it relates to their reputation as they attempt this professional endeavor?

David: Okay, so you’re opening up a hornet’s nest here. You know that, right? You know that.

Crayton: Maybe.

David: So the oldest one, he’s an adult now. So Dawson, [inaudible 00: 31: 44] There’s the big football game and the players go down and they’re on the field next to the football players. And Bo Jackson’s walking around and Dawson says, “Hey, can we go over there and talk to them?” And one of the guys on the golf team at the time said, “Hey man, remember we’re just the golf team. Those guys, they’re paying for our scholarships.” So you got to know your pecking order and what’s going on.

Crayton: Especially at Auburn.

David: Especially, SEC, Big 12, et cetera. I actually have been incredibly interested in all of the changes in college sports. So I was a college athlete. I saw people that could not afford to, they’re a scholarship athlete, but they could have no money on the side. They couldn’t work on the side during the school year. And guys that couldn’t afford to take somebody on a date to the movies, they would take their street clothes and put it in their uniform so they get them washed for free. Stuff like that. And you’d be surprised, some of these guys were people that were, their jersey was being sold across the country for millions of dollars, and they were told, well, you’re getting a scholarship, that’s enough. That I had an issue with. And I’m sort of a free market person. If you produce something of great value, you should be compensated accordingly. And so I thought that the NCAA, and probably get in trouble for saying this, but I thought that the NCAA could have handled things better. I thought that they could have given out some of the revenue so that it could all be controlled and managed. And they didn’t do it in time, so it probably would’ve gotten there, but they took too long. And so somebody went to court and changed the entire system. Whether that’s good or bad, I don’t know. I think it benefits the student athletes that put their heart and soul into things for years and years and years. And they may not go pro or they may only go pro for a little while. And if they’re producing incredible amounts of revenue during that time, they’re grown adults and so I do believe they should be compensated more than just their scholarship because I think it’s fair.

Crayton: Yeah. So back to your boys and the advice that you give them as it relates to their public image, as it grows both on the professional level, as well as the college level, what advice are you giving them?

David: Wow. So we’re very blessed. Our son, I’m not just saying this, our kids are, they’re good people.

Crayton: That helps.

David: And so it’s been pretty easy for us. But nowadays with social media, and I’m sure we’re not the only ones, other people are telling their kids this too. Don’t do anything you don’t want the world to know about. Social media, you literally can be broadcast worldwide in 60 seconds. But more importantly than that, do everything to a high level of excellence. But remember, being a good person comes first and foremost.

Crayton: All right. Let’s go to our lightning round.

David: Okay. Oh my.

Crayton: Besides family and the courses in north Texas, your favorite golf course?

David: In Texas, Escondido. Outside of Texas, Pebble Beach.

Crayton: Favorite golf club. You’re a new golfer, I understand.

David: I am not good at golf, but I love it. I love it.

Crayton: Favorite club?

David: So I’m going to say Club 1916. That’s the new club at PGA Frisco.

Crayton: Actually, I just meant the club in your bag.

David: Oh my. Oh, favorite club. Favorite club, oh putter, for sure. Putter. Putter.

Crayton: Favorite golf movie?

David: Caddy Shack.

Crayton: Okay.

David: Sorry. Sorry.

Crayton: No, I think Tin Cup’s right up there. Favorite television attorney show?

David: I’m going to show some age here, the young folks won’t know this one. Perry Mason.

Crayton: Yeah, of course. Favorite attorney movie?

David: Favorite attorney movie. To Kill a Mockingbird.

Crayton: Oh wow. Good one. For those who have a chance to visit Frisco, Texas, what’s your favorite restaurant? You get yourself in trouble for this one, I suppose.

David: I could. I’d have to ask Wren that.

Crayton: Do you want to phone a friend?

David: I’m going to say Cowboys Club.

Crayton: Okay. Dallas Cowboys Club. Yeah, that’s the thing a lot of people don’t know about Frisco is the Cowboys are there.

David: They are.

Crayton: FC Dallas. Huge sports franchise city. Okay, here we go. Favorite subject in school?

David: Math.

Crayton: What’d you major in college?

David: Economics.

Crayton: Favorite holiday?

David: Christmas.

Crayton: Favorite hobby?

David: My favorite hobby is watching my kids play golf.

Crayton: You did play sports in college and were a professional athlete. You never told us what it was.

David: So I played volleyball. I ran track and cross country my first year and I switched to volleyball and I played some pro beach volleyball fresh out of college.

Crayton: At University of Texas?

David: University of Texas.

Crayton: No small deal. Favorite guilty pleasure?

David: Wake surfing.

Crayton: Oh, nice. Good for you. Favorite consumer brand?

David: What type of product? Any product?

Crayton: Any product.

David: BMW.

Crayton: Okay. Favorite day of the week?

David: Friday.

Crayton: Your hidden superpower? Hidden talent?

David: Grit.

Crayton: If you could pick one person alive or dead that you could meet for dinner, who would it be?

David: Jesus.

Crayton: David , father of two. The dad who brought the Professional Golfers Association to Frisco, Texas. Thank you for being our guest on Reputation Matters. Loved hearing your insights, your advice, and your counsel, as always. And thank you for joining us. We’ll see you next time.